Friday, July 22, 2011

American Redoubt

I hang out in some prepper/survivalist groups. Let me say upfront, I don't think end times are coming, I don't think One World order is about to declare martial law, and I don't think the gubment is about to put us all in camps. There has been a growing movement lately that just gets my dander up. It seems like a bad idea all the way around, and I have NO desire to participate. I'm speaking of Rawles "American Redoubt" movement.

Believers gush about the concept, "it is time for freedom-loving Christians to relocate to something analogous to 'Galts Gulch' on a grand scale."

Early proponent and settler Chuck Baldwin, "I read the letters and emails from people all over America who feel the divine urge to come to the Mountain States. And many are coming to Kalispell, Montana, specifically to be part of Liberty Fellowship and the band of patriot Christian brothers that are assembled here." Did you notice the militant language in use? "Bands of patriot Christian brothers," I wonder what SS members called themselves? Further reading brings up mention of building bunkers and prepping to repulse attackers if needed. Who are they planning to be fighting? Answer: other Americans.

These Christian nut-bags hate anyone who isn't the right type of Christian or the right type of prepper.
Putting their persecution complex in high gear, this movement encourages like-minded families to move to a select few states in the western part of the US. "If you aren't in agreement with most of those precepts, then I don't recommend that you relocate to the Redoubt--you probably won't fit in." and "In calamitous times, with a few exceptions, it will only be the God fearing that will continue to be law abiding." Fear mongering isolationist twaddle. Millions of Americans are good without god. Millions more manage to remain decent human beings using an amalgamation of spiritual beliefs.

Are hard times coming, yes I think that's unavoidable. Is it time to circle the wagons and give up on society at large, no. This is the time to knock on your neighbor's door and ask how they're handling the heat wave. This is the time to review your personal safety nets, and keep a close eye on your financial well being. This is the time to start community gardens and food gleaning programs to improve the food security of your hometown. This is the time to brush up on your making/repairing skills and sharpen your tools. Abondoning your community/town to relocate to an undisclosed location out in the middle of nowhere, that's just foolish and shortsighted. What happens when the utopia doesn't pan out or your fellow Christian soldiers decide, for whatever reason, that you are not the right kind of kindred? Don't kid yourselves, any group that starts out with a long list of people they don't like, will only find ways to make that list longer. To those individuals who already happen to live in the Redoubt area, you have my sympathies.

11 comments:

Lamb said...

A big hug coming your way, Jennie! I absolutely agree! I gave up reading Rawles ages ago, as some of what he espouses is too much on on the nutbag fringe for my tastes. I, too feel sorry for those folks that think living in the "American Redoubt" is a good idea. They talk of others being "sheeple"? To me, handing your decisions (spiritual, day-to-day living, etc) over to some sort of "higher authority" and assuming Rawles, Baldwin and their ilk know what is best for you...well, those people are the REAL "sheeple"....

fullfreezer said...

Amen and amen!! I was so irritated today at someone who was fear mongering in the name of Christianity. They were definitely giving it a bad name.
I agree with you, hard times are coming (or here!) but hate is definitely not the answer.
Judy

haha- my verification word is beast!!

James from Iowa said...

Right on! Rawles can have his redoubt...phooey on such nonsense.

Jon Lorisen said...

This kind of garbage is why I too gave up reading survivalblog. There's good information on there - sometimes - but it is drowning in fear, hatred, religious angst, and the urge to buy old nickels for their silver content.

It would be pretty funny watching all the religious weirdos turning on each other...

I really loved this part on his precepts page:

"The foundational morality of the civilized world is best summarized in the Ten Commandments."

Really? I love how the "thou shalt not kill" gets glossed over so readily. I suspect the AK/AR love on there not only violates the no killing but the worshipping idols one too. There's some serious gun worshipping afoot. I like guns and all but sheesh.... :)

Maybe we can use some of the Mexico border fence to pen them all in?

Suburban Survivalist said...

I think the main thing of importance about what Rawles calls the "redoubt" is that the population is so much lower than the rest of the U.S., especially the area east of the Mississippi River. I live on the east coast and will walk out with my family during a collapse (if we're still here), or die trying.

If/when we face a real collapse, being in low population areas will IMO be far, far preferable.

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/89/71789-050-459169A6.gif

I don't know/care if my home state of Nebraska in the plains made Raweles' list, it's where I'll head.

Jon; Though the King James version says "shall not kill," I believe the correct translation is "shall not murder." At least that's what I've read, and think it makes more sense contextually.

Jon Lorisen said...

@Suburban Survivalist, certainly there are a few dozen (few hundred?) bible versions floating around with wildly different interpretations of the meaning. I've certainly known people to take it is though shalt not murder though I've never seen it printed that way.

But that's kind of the point, isn't it? Rawles has the ten commandments listed as moral absolutes but we are already searching for more convenient (or some may say more accurate) ways to apply them.

Thou shalt not kill is quite clear - and massively inconvenient. On the other hand, thou shalt not murder makes it quite simple to rationalize killing others. Not sure if the New Testament Jesus would agree.

The Old Testament is full of a lot of very nasty ways of acting and living if one were to practice them literally. This leads to a more conveniently selective application of Old Testament morality.

From a personal view, I consider "though shalt not kill" pretty darn ridiculous. I'm with you on the don't murder. As a non-Christian, I'm quite comfortable with just saying don't murder people simply because I think it's a good idea.

As for the Redoubt area, there certainly is a lot of great land there, under different personal circumstances I wouldn't mind living there myself - though it's pretty clear I'm not on "the list."

The United States and a whole host of countries should certainly be divided up into smaller, more sustainable regions. But I'd organize them around watersheds, rivers, and other critical terrain features rather than focusing on tank defence and religious persecution that does not exist.

Jon Lorisen said...

*correction, to "...bible versions floating around with wildly different interpretations of the meaning."

I meant there are many different bible versions out there with different wording. Some reflect completely different interpretations of scripture or are correcting "errors," some are just attempts to make the language more modern or less controversial.

Note: proofreading is a good thing, must try it some day.

Suburban Survivalist said...

Jon,
I think Rawles would be small fry post collapse and only gets the attention he does b/c of the net. His "Precepts" will be just that, his. I haven't lived in the "Redoubt" states, but get the impression that as long as one doesn't make it a point to go out of their way to ridicule Christians, no one will care what you are. At least that's how it normally is in the plains states I have lived in. I could be wrong.

"Thou shall not kill" is the 1611 King James Version (KJV) and is a Catholic position. "Thou shall not murder" is in most Protestant and most modern versions, based primarily on more accurate translation of the original texts and secondarily context. A few examples;

http://bible.logos.com/passage/niv/Deuteronomy%205.17#ref=Dt%205%3A17%2Chi%3DDt%205%3A17-Dt%205%3A17&ver=NIV

http://bible.logos.com/passage/ylt/Deuteronomy%205.17#ref=Dt%205%3A17%2Chi%3DDt%205%3A17-Dt%205%3A17&ver=YLT

http://bible.logos.com/passage/esv/Deuteronomy%205.17#ref=Dt%205%3A17%2Chi%3DDt%205%3A17-Dt%205%3A17&ver=ESV

Jon Lorisen said...

@Suburban Survivalist, thanks for the links.

I have never lived in that region (or anywhere in the US). I agree that it is hard to imagine a blog site creating mass migration and what would be a new country over a multi-state region. I wonder how many (if any) like-minded people he will attract to the area.

I have a lot of family in Utah and the Canadian prairies (mostly southern Alberta). I think a lot of those areas would definitely cluster along religious lines, I have a hard time picturing them being tolerant of others. Too many variables to know for certain though. If they did become the sole political force for their region (a near certainty IMO) I imagine most people in the area would convert even if it wasn't a heartfelt conversion. I already suspect a lot of my family stays in the church because they don't want to be ostracized for leaving. Maybe if they start talking to me again I'll ask :P

In regards to survivalblog and a lot of other sites, I share a lot of common interests with the people that frequent them but the more public followers at least appear bogged down in what I consider extremely counter-productive views on religion, women, education, race, fiscal policy, etc.

I'm sure they are heartbroken to have lost me. After all, I'm pretty awesome. Really. Trust me. Would I lie to you on the Internet?

Jennie said...

Suburban,
Yea, lower pop density is a plus. But, there are lots of states where you can find that, Iowa is currently my favorite, but Missouri has some tempting levels of freedom, and hubby and I are considering looking for work there.
There's no need to move out to crazy land, with your bible and guns. Just my opinion of course. Always good to hear from you.
Thanks for stopping by!

Suburban Survivalist said...

I like both rural Iowa and Missouri (more trees/hills), but they are pretty close to the eastern hordes;

http://media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/89/71789-050-459169A6.gif